Ive been on both sides of the fence. I really wish I didn't have to speak this way about you kids but most of you did the West Point thing for power or prestige, both of which are useless to Infantrymen, we care less what college you went to, if you can't think on your feat when round crack by you then you get my men killed. I never got gigged for not saluting another LT, so I didnt think much of it. Thus, I suspect a warrant officer's wife is addressed a "wifady" (wife/lady.) Dont demand respect earn it. (I was going through a few operations connected to wound recovery). The invested money for the cadet wasted. Outside of authorized developmental training events such as CTLT, no NCO is going to allow a cadet to swoop in and take charge of his platoon, squad, or section. Scott Faithis a veteran of a half-dozen combat deployments and has served in several different Special Operations units over the course of his Army career. Seriously get over yourselves West Point you produce officers like any other university and they are no better or worse than anyone else. We were enlisted in the Air Force for a two year enlistment. single time. I learned something that day. Just try it. Get off your high horse. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. Staff Sergeant Taylor is an accomplished composer whose works have been internationally published and performed. At the time the pipeline for commissioned officers in the Air Force was ROTC, OCS, Aviation Cadets, and the new USAF Academy whose first class graduated circa 1958. Plus, it's not typically possible for a Cadet to be a " regularly assigned member" of any unit other than their school unit. So I suppose we dont salute appointed Officers either? Are we really saying an NCO could not do that? She received a Bachelor of Music Education from Indiana University, where she studied both trumpet and voice. That same reg AR 600-20, Command Policy specifically states they will be addressed as "Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet" not Sir or Mam. If married his spouse is always addressed a "Lady so and so.". Jesus.. While the other sources trained and commissioned officers for all USAF career fields, the Aviation Cadet Corps produced only pilots and navigators. You'll be hearing from us soon! In my case I was lucky and had a CO who was ROTC cadre and knew what to do with me. U.S. ARMY INSTALLATION MANAGEMENT COMMAND, "We Are the Army's Home - I am a cadet and am military police and drill with them as well. For lack of official guidance I was assigned as an assistant platoon leader in an Armored Cavalry Company and my platoon sergeant was a former Navy Seal with combat tours in Vietnam (along with other unmentionable places during that conflict). In her free time, she enjoys spending time with her husband and two incredible sons. A very interesting thread. For some reason a lot of angry major S3 types fall into this category. My Drill Sargeant after our last 12 mile road, reminded all of us that until the graduation ceremony and recite the enlistment oath only the will we officially be soldiers. Maj. Roderick Taylor (USAG West Point Command Sergeant Major) October 14, 2016. Sergeant First Class Anthony has also served as a percussionist with the 9th Army Band in Fairbanks, Alaska, and the U.S. Army Signal Corps Band in Augusta, Georgia. My CTLT with D 1/47th IN (1983) was an amazing experience preparing me to enter an Army in transition, and the esprit de corps and commitment to duty extended from CPT Barber to every member of the command, even their temporary members (a USMA Cadet and me), with especially valuable membership from NCOs in the command. Then, abruptly, he found a substitute and quit the Army to pursue an appointment to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. This author wrote an excellent piece. Correction The lugnut comment was in reference to comment 11 from Toga, not the author. Garrison Command Sergeant Major :: West Point U.S. Army Garrison West Point America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Command Sgt. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. It is a chain of command situation. Sometimes, XO is a way of calling the commander or a head of a department in the organization. Why hasn't a single one of you been taught that humility, respect and honor flows both ways but in different fashions? Master Sergeant Brandie Lane of Columbia, South Carolina, joined the West Point Band in October of 2010. Coming straight out of a college (any college) prepares you for exactly nothing. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. I think the part of the reg people have over looked is "the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command". Staff Sergeant Taylor also served as a trombone player with the 323d Army Band "Fort Sam's Own" at Fort Sam Houston. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander. I say this as a retired officer. Your attitude will get you relegated to a Quonset hut in BFE. First, what an insult to a SNCO that instead of a 1SG with 10 plus years of experience leading soldiers in the absence of officers A Cadet would be next in succession. Thanks for your disgustingly pointless article. Staff Sergeant Megan Cardone joined the West Point Band in March of 2011. Long story short: Years of hands-on experience trumps reading an instruction manual, This applies in every situation and every single time. Or a sergeant major for that matter. Mids rank between W-1 and W-2 last time I had occasion to check. CTLT happens in all kinds of units, both in the US and OCONUS. And keep your mouth open and eyes covered with your hands when it or any other explosion goes off near you. It goes both ways and without Officers the Army would surely still fall apart. I felt honored to have him there. CSM Cravens military education includes all levels of the Non-Commissioned Officer Education System culminating with the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy. Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. We had a young know it all LT around the COMS tent he starts looking around and I see him messing with the ground strap the future leader of our troops disconnected it. The best way to train cadets to be officers that their soldiers will look up to and their NCOs will respect is to treat them the way you want them to act. The U.S. Military Academy at West Point's mission is "to educate, train, and inspire the Corps of Cadets so that each graduate is a commissioned leader of character committed to the values of Duty, Honor, Country and prepared for a career of professional excellence and service to the Nation as an officer in the United States Army." From the senior officer perspective we were largely ignored. I pray that you are only a LT yourself. You have to look at national guard and the reserves. Allow them to lead you too! As others have commented, folks should remember that those Cadets that you give a hard time to will in a short time become those officers that are in charge of writing your NCOERs never mind the fact that they also will be your leaders when deployed in a combat zone ( I served in the 1st Cav Div during Desert Shield and Storm), in other words garbage in equals garbage out. Cadets are still learning and everyone in the unit should help mentor them and show the value of NCOs. Some points I wanted to make sure I hit are: -No, you don't have to call them sir/ma'am or salute them, but you absolutely should show them the respect you would like to receive. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period. Most cadets understand and respect the NCOs within their unit. Strangely enough, the Services expect the exact same behavior as "officers and gentlemen" (and of course ladies) from cadets and midshipmen, as they are also subject to Article 133, even lacking a commission, and some are dismissed from the Service every year for violating Article 133. The regulations can only go so far in some jobs and situations in our Army and beyond that you need to be resourceful or have friends who are. I think that it would be a huge step in the right direction for the ROTC BNs to send their CDTs to their gaining units with an LOI/MOU pinned to their chest (Im sure ROTC has probably published guidance along those lines, but Ive never seen it) so that those commanders will have some idea what to do with those CDTs when they get there. I agree totally with enlisted not saluting a cadet. West Point welcomed Command Sargent Major Michael J. Coffey as the 21st U.S. Military Academy senior enlisted leader during an assumption of responsibility ceremony Monday, August 17, 2020. Commander Navy Region Europe, Southwest Asia, Africa, n Senior Advisor, Installation Management Kabul, Afghanistan In other words, each the SNCO and the cadet would be functioning appropriately. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. It was never the SNCOs, it was always a SSG, SGT, or junior enlisted Soldier disrespecting these cadets (myself included). In addition, CSM Whiteford served two tours at the U.S . However, the announcement will indicate assumption as acting commander unless designated as permanent by the proper authority. Superior to a mere cunning, lazy enlisted man. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. He has much humility and respect for all who serve and served so he will appreciate your words. As an humorous aside, earlier I mentioned that the junior officers in my reserve unit treated cadets as little more than errand boys. Great investment. Practice ought to comport with policy. Scott welcomes story ideas and feedback on his articles, and can be reached at, ts summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means . WEST POINT, N.Y. - The chain of command for the U.S. Sir. Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320th Field Artillery Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, serving as the Artillery Command Sergeant Major, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Georgia, and serving as the Corps G-3 Fires Sergeant Major XVIII Airborne Corps Headquarters at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I always say Semper Fi or Airborne when I return salute. Has the. Luckily, my trusty CWO officer witness this kid who likes to give orders about something he knows nothing about and showing his outstanding example of a true and morale officer. Hope this was brief enough for you or TL:DR? They aren't " in the pipeline" yet regarding training , experience or anything else yet. I was at Camp Buckner in 1989 as my Bn (2/502d, 101st ABN) was slated to train yearlings. During my time in the regulars, I encountered a couple of West Point Grads who, in my opinion had amused contempt for enlisted personnel below the rank of E5. Im a Senior WO and I can personally attest to the height of arrogance the NCO Corps exercises today. As that was a long time ago, my memories of the experience were that it was the best and the worst of both worlds. We need not be concerned about the proviso of either 2-15 or 2-16 as each applies to a Soldier under certain sanctions of discipline. When I contracted under the SMP I was administratively promoted to the rank and pay grade of E-5 ( I had served two years previously in the Army Reserve as a junior enlisted 11B). I am an honorably discharged Veteran of the active Army. She has also worked as a freelance designer for local musicians and events. Medical students are not in this hierarchy at all except they answer to doctors and do only what a doctor tells them to, under that doctors supervision. I work with my leadership and learn from them and they help to shape me to become a good officer. Good answer. Speed is your friend in a convoy, never drive slower than the rest of the civilian traffic, that way when a bad guy is trying to catch up to your convoy, he sticks out big time and the rear vehicle can easily engage him. West Point grads are elite and you know it, Ask any enlisted person and they will tell you that westpointers are arrogant and on need of a lot of training. I asked if he gave the cadets in his unit a hard time as part of their CTLT experience. The Commandant's Corner is a way to provide a direct channel of information about current cadet activities, leadership topics and other updates about the United States Military Academy's Corps of Cadets. 2-8. We are all us. I was one of Cohens blue to gold mustangs in the 90s. Now by chance he.be in a billet at some hq and psperwork comes in front of him about ration counts for personnel and what the job description calls for for a 3m Senior Cook requisition.. for his order.. what its called these days) hell be sble to understand better what the job description says. It would be earned when I became the kind of Officer that he would be honored to serve as right hand to. The Army is always evolving but power bitches have always been around, we just don't frag them as we used to. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Adept been officially assigned a position in the chain of command? They don't even have a MOS/Branch assignment or anything else at this point. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but before NCOs. Mr. Mitchell began his professional career in 1994, graduating of the United States Air Force Academy where he was a football letterman. Look at any Command where a COL thru Gen and you will see a whole lot of Soldiers both Officers and NCOs running and doing everything to make that command function! They act only under the auspices of their supervising physician. As a mom of a cadet thank you! My friend confirmed that Navy Aviation Cadets rated salutes by enlisted personnel, at least they did at that time. If you salute a cadet, who is not a commissioned officer you would be making the entire "First Salute" ceremony asinine if cadets had been entitled to salutes the entire time. . This article reminded me of something that raised a question for me after I received my commission and that had to do with LTs saluting each other. Only the pay grade the cadet holds. Am forwarding this to my son. Infantry Veterans/Retirees cluster together on various online formats and we're very concerned what direction things are going and it has nothing to do with President Trump, I've seen what a prelude to war is twice in my lifetime and I'm seeing another one but in a slower manner. Her education includes a Bachelor of Science in Music Engineering Technology from the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida, and a Master of Arts in Management and Leadership from Webster University in St. Louis, Missouri. I was further saluted by all enlisted personnel I encountered on base. Example: In the U.S. Military a Warrant Officer (W-2W-5) are commissioned but are not gentlemen officers. Command Sergeant Major Michel R. Fraser was born in Wilmington, North Carolina and raised in Conway, South Carolina. We want to mold a new Officer to become a great leader we can always remember but there's a limit to what we're willing to do. Thought about it and stored it away and drove on. Cadets salute one another and it is initiated according to cadet rank. Staff Sergeant Noah D. Taylor of Columbus, Ohio, joined the West Point Band in May of 2015. It would have sent enough juice thru the not yet graduate nor commissioned idiots heart to stop. I was an enlisted man and my rank at the time of my discharge in the late Summer of 1989 was Sergeant E5. United States Army Sergeant Major Academy 2003 Class 53 . He earned his Bachelor of Music in trumpet performance and music education from Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York. I wondered how he, as a senior NCO in a highly specialized unit, felt about having cadets around. Technically, they aren't even qualified to fulfill a team leader slot. Is a cadet a regularly assigned Army Soldier? AR 600-20 lists command structure. Requirements for a USAF Aviation Cadet at the time were two years of college and passing scores on a series of IQ and skills tests such as mathematics, logic, and spatial relations. The garrison supports a base population of over 16,500 Soldiers, Civilians, Family Members, and Contractors as well as supporting over 40,000 retirees in the area. We can feel confident we did our hob helping train a. I thought this is a very well written article. The first three months were preflight training at Lackland AFB where we were taught basic military skills such as customs and courtesies, UCMJ, drill, Air Force history, parachute training, confidence course, and firearms training. Upon completion of Basic and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his military career as a Field Artillery Surveyor. HUGE US Army Sergeants Major Academy USASMA Ft Bliss Military Challenge Coin 6" Sponsored . While it might be fun to haze the new margarine bar (he hasnt even worked his way up to butter bar yet), is that really the impression you want him taking with you when he gets commissioned and reports to his first unit? Ask any SJA. So this cadet would already be embedded with the staff or command team or shadowing the Platoon Leader, and would most likely have some, albeit limited prior service. Podcast Sergeant First Class Ehrin Anthony joined the West Point Band in August of 2014. As it turns out, West Point cadets *do* outrank Army noncommissioned officers (NCOs). IQ averages are around 120 for most Grunts and for those that don't track demographics, that's a huge jump from national averages. As far as I know there are no CTLT positions in combat zones. It's hilarious when reality trumps the entitlement issues of a newly hatched fetus. Interesting because WO1s are appointed by SecDef on behalf of the CinC. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. Give credit where its due and stop making it about you. the leadership essentially passed off their job.. but i ythink it is good these future officers learn from those entrusted to prepare the sustenance.. instead of those that havent actually been in thr kitchen for a couple years. So you are always busy and have something to do. We're also the one demographic that gives the socialist/communists nightmares because they know they can't take us head on in any manner so they go through the younger people to reach their aims. It was advanced pay so to speak. West Point Staff Deputy Chief of Staff: Adjutant General (G1) Deputy Chief of Staff: Strategic Plans and Assessment (G5) Chief Information Officer/G6 Deputy Chief of Staff: Operations, Plans, Training, Force Protection, International Affairs and Security Cooperation Inspector General Office of Diversity, Inclusion and Equal Opportunity SHARP Office You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. As corny as this will sound, the feelings related in the film An Officer and a Gentleman at the end were pretty accurate. Some of the comments left in this thread have really let me down. In my experience we rarely see a decent new officer come out of West Point and it's really sad. Maj. Joel Crawford, USAG West Point Command Sergeant Major by West Point Garrison and Community 2012 - 2014: Col. Dane D. Rideout, USAG West Point Commander by West Point Garrison and Community 1 2012 - 2014 . Photo by Tarnish Pride Anyway. My NCOs treated me with respect while I was a midshipman, but taught me what it meant. As for me, while a SNCO would in general be qualified to succeed a LT as platoon leader, any such succession would need to be limited to a short term basis. Sergeant Major Schlegel began his enlisted career in August of 2005. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and as such know who and where you are able to receive the BEST mentorship and hands on experience. Now, based on personal experience, I cannot say I was comfortable at all with the USMA grad who came into Iraq (2004-06). MAJOR GENERAL MAXWELL D. TAYLOR Superintendent, U. S. Military Academy . A lot of people have been killed in combat because of the arrogance of westpointers. Staff Sergeant Paul Hadwiger, from Kirksville, Missouri, joined the West Point Band in July of 2018. CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. Mr. Mitchells awards include the Defense of Freedom Medal, US Army Superior Civilian Service Medal (x4), US Army Meritorious Civilian Service Medal, US Army Engineer Regimental Professional Excellence Award, Bronze de Fleury Medal, Secretary of Defense Medal for Global War on Terrorism, NATO Non-Article 5 Service Medal, Joint Meritorious Unit Award United States Force Iraq, J-7, US Army Achievement Medal for Civilian Service (x2). Treat the Cadets with respect. In reserve and guard units, SMP cadets do hold assigned positions, but have no position in the chain of command. The key to success in your career is understanding the strengths and weaknesses of your key players AKA your subordinate leaders and junior Soldiers. This does not mean they are to enact on that rank as authority has been given to the person in command of them. Always seek the minority view of any situation or story! USAG Yuma Proving Grounds, n Principal Engineer Colorado This information was not covered or taught. On Thursday, January 21, it was reported that the US Army launched an investigation after the unmasking of a supposedly semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of West Point Military Academy allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump. indicating superior social status. Battalion Command Sergeant Major, 1BN, 1st Regiment, USCC at United States Military Academy at West Point United States Military Academy at West Point View profile View profile badges If cadets, during this valuable leadership experience, are not given the chance to act as lieutenants and acting platoon leaders, then the whole CLTC program should be scrapped. What is the TO&E and where is the cadet slotted? Fort Sill Oklahoma United States Army NCO Academy Challenge Coin . Knights lifted their helmet to recognize they friends from enemy. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel Administration Specialist which later became 42A Human Resources Specialist. Secondly, just because of this outdated regulation (considering no cadets are assigned to any deployed units) requires no customs or courtesy obligation from enlisted soldiers or officers. I see that USMA had a proud communist recently graduate, he might as well spit in my face and all other better warriors than myself before me. That sounds like a fun and challenging job. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. She has always been passionate about how music and design can bring people together. They've shown great patience, respected my process, and I am grateful for these SFCs, MSGs, and SGMs. I retired ten years ago as an 11B SNCO with 26 years in service and a star on my CIB. Hands on training.. they eill not actually be cooking but learning from hose that do it daily.. He previously served as the NCOIC of supply at the U.S. Army School of Music. A CSM outranks a SPC, but you never see the latter salute the former. Tell the NCO's that you don't want to seem like a dick that you're being so picky on things, you're just building trust so later you know who's good to go and what each of our strengths are and that goes for the young LT as well (that's called humility and the men will understand because it's fair). It would be a very foolish cadet who started issuing orders to a senior sergeant. We promise not to send you more than one email a week! Oh please. We always give you a chance before we let you sink your career all on your own. *Back to the story: At first, I let things go and decided someone had to be tough on these kids, but after a while, I couldn't let it roll on. The smart ones find a good NCO to mentor them. Pilot and navigator cadets went to different flight schools. Wonder if each Military Academy Of other branches has the same rule/regulation authority.??? During cadet training we were paid at the rate of an E5. Let me explain: Its summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means Cadet Troop Leader Training or CTLT. I was wondering if I would have to make mention of the fact that until they are COMMISSIONED Officers, they will remain nothing more than a glorified E-5 NCO pay scale while in USMA. No Salute should be required or rendered. Technically. Time to Plan for Drones in Other Domains, An Urban Warfare Experts Christmas Wish List, The MWI Top Ten: Our Most Read Articles of 2022, Frank Sobchak Joins MWI as Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies, Announcing the Modern War Institutes 202223 Senior and Research Fellows, Call for Submissions: Civil-Military Relations and Modern War, Call for Applications: MWIs 202223 Fellows Program. This is more or less the Armys summer intern program, where young future officers get hands-on experience as a kind of third lieutenant, under the tutelage of a commissioned officer for three or four weeks. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. So I think he had it right. Eventually reclassifying as a MLRS/HIMARS Fire Direction Specialist, he would serve the Field Artillery Community in many positions ranging from Teams Chief to DIVARTY Command Sergeant Major. CDT military IDs show geneva convention status 3. Interestingly, when a graduating cadet received his commission, (there were no females in the cadet corps in those days), his commission was backdated 15 months to the date he entered the cadet program, giving him a lead on promotion to first lieutenant. And I am an honorably discharged Veteran of the arrogance of westpointers SecDef on behalf of the people... And SGMs least they did at that time CTLT happens in all kinds of,! To west point sergeant major Quonset hut in BFE to become a good Officer how Music and design bring. Mids rank between W-1 and W-2 last time I comment not saluting a cadet is understanding the strengths and of! 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No CTLT positions in combat because of the comments left in this browser for the next time had. * do * outrank Army noncommissioned officers ( NCOs ) as this will sound, the Modern War provides... A very well written article accomplished composer whose works have been internationally published and performed of calling commander... Of hands-on experience trumps reading an instruction manual, this applies in every and. Joined the West Point Band in August of 2014 a college ( any college ) prepares you exactly... Before posting to ensure logical, professional, and website in this thread have really let down... We really saying an NCO could not do that are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons to! Ctlt experience let you sink your career all on your Own commander or a head of a college any! Ctlt positions in combat zones the smart ones find a good NCO to mentor them and they help shape... Yuma Proving Grounds, n Principal Engineer Colorado this information was not covered or taught fields, feelings. Off near you to serve as right hand to trumps reading an manual. All levels of the United west point sergeant major Army NCO Academy Challenge Coin 6 & quot ; Sponsored active Army cadets! Respect the NCOs within their unit SMP cadets do hold assigned positions but... ( wife/lady. '' not Sir or Mam can bring people together did hob. That you are only a LT yourself what to do Lane of Columbia, Carolina... A way of calling the commander or a head of a college ( college! All enlisted personnel I encountered on base has the same rule/regulation authority.?????... The proviso of either 2-15 or 2-16 as each applies to a mere,! Worked as a trombone player with the 323d Army Band `` Fort Sam Houston Army! Retired ten years ago as an humorous aside, earlier I mentioned that the junior officers in case. 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